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11-30-2009, 05:08 PM
I am rebuilding my snow plow for my skidsteer which was a meyers truck plow. Last year I converted the single acting cylinders to one dual acting cylinder which bent the rod in a 90 degree curve. When I pulled it back in it straightened it out but then broke at the threads. Now I am doing two dual acting cylinders and want to hook them up in series. In my googling I have learned that when hooking up cylinders in series the capacities on both sides are not equal so there can be a problem. What I was looking for was to find out if I had to bleed the air out or to prefill the hose from cylinder to cylinder. Anyone have any experience with this? I suppose I could just Tee it, this just looked easier.
I just love to plow with this, but this is the 5th time I have had to do a major fix. Biggest problem is the pivot pin. Original was 1/2", sheared those off like toothpixs. Got up to a 3/4" grade 7 bolt, then was just ovaling out the pivot holes. Now I have 4" of hardened bearing surface with a .935 center shaft. 1" on the bottom, 4" of 2" tube with 2 1" hardened inserts in each end and a grease zert in the middle, and one more 1" insert on top. This better be the last time I do this. I would take pics but for one it has been cobbled so much (not just me) I would be ashamed, 2 I have not mastered that here yet. Thanks Kurt
11-30-2009, 06:40 PM
it at 2 single acting cylinders. The way Myer set it up to begin with. You might run in to more problems than bent cylinders. Not saying it won't work, but I'd be careful.
11-30-2009, 07:43 PM
Okay. I will admit that I know nothing about snowplows. Thank God.:) However, I have been around farm equipment all of my life so maybe that qualifies me for some input. Maybe not.:o What advantage is there in hooking up cylinders in series? I don't remember ever seeing them done that way. If it were me, I'd hook them up with a "T" so that each has equal pressure. If they are double acting they will work the air out after being cycled a time or two. If single acting, I would leave the fitting loose going into each cylinder and pressure up the hose to purge the air. After that, cycling the cylinders a few times should purge the rest of the air out of them.
11-30-2009, 09:01 PM
Pa Weldor-- I did originally use the single acting cylinders, but the higher pressure of my skid steer compared to a electric pump unit created many problems. Even with pressure reducers the blade would just fly from side to side.
Jim-TX--I agree to "t" it. I have seen this setup on other commercial skid steer plows. I envy you at times being in the warmer weather. There is some fun sitting in short sleeve shirt in a heated cab during a blowing snow storm. I plow about 1 1/2 acres of parking lot on my property so if it's going to be real deep I do it twice. Well things are nice until the plow or a hose goes south. ;)
11-30-2009, 10:08 PM
I would take pics but for one it has been cobbled so much (not just me) I would be ashamed, 2 I have not mastered that here yet. Thanks Kurt
Kurt, if you will take the pictures I will help you right past that little hurdle. http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif
I mean that sincerely.
11-30-2009, 10:46 PM
You should keep your singles acting cylinder. But you need a flow reducer valve to throtle down the flow of oil.
it my .02$:)
11-30-2009, 11:06 PM
TSLbogger--I tried the reducers, but it seemed like it was more the diameter of the cylinder. It is so small and they just are not built to the specs that a ag cylinder is. I do appreciate your advice. Thanks Kurt
You should keep your singles acting cylinder. But you need a flow reducer valve to throtle down the flow of oil.
it my .02$:)
If you know your GPM you can calculate the GPM's for the speed you wish.
If your not sure what speed you are looking for Northern Tools has a manual adjustable flow control (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200338999_200338999) for $64.99
with it you can fine tune the flow from 0 to 30 gpm
11-30-2009, 11:36 PM
I agree with TX you should hook them parallel with a T the series I don't think would work.
11-30-2009, 11:56 PM
M/G I am going to hook them up in parallel, but I am still intrigued how the series thing works. I just thought of something, if one cylinder was turned around and flow was from say a push to a pull and vice a versa then the amount of fluid would be the same. Sorry if I went off there, this has been bugging me. Thanks for the reply. Kurt
12-01-2009, 12:53 AM
You need to use 2 tee's. left cylnder rod end to right cylnder barrell end then to loader coupler. Left cylnder barrell end to right cylnder rod end then to the other loader coupler. If it is too fast then you need to add a ajustable orfice check restrictor in one each hose, then you can dial in the speed that you want going each direction.
Cylnders plumbed in series are typically used on implement lift. A rephasing cylnder will be mounted on the main frame and a standard, smaller cylnder will be mounted on the wings. The rephasing happens usually at the top of stroke and is a passage that allows oil to flow past the piston at the end of stroke. By allowing oil to pass around the piston the regular cylnder in the system will travel to the end of it's stroke and then the implement will be level agian.
12-01-2009, 02:16 AM
remeber it pays not too over complicate things if you don't have to.....phasing cylinders .......the idea of one cylinders displacement feeding another, is easy to grasp, little more complicated to put into place, phasing cylinders are not all created equal, the lyco ones here have a channel in the bore of the cylinder at the end of the stroke to allow air to move and oil to fill the next circuit......simple enough, just not a fan of the piston seals running over that sharp edge 1000 movements a day......
its a bit like giving a genious a hammer and nails, and tell him to improve the technique of reproduction in the human race, what really was wrong with the old way lol
a cross over relief valve of sorts in the system will avoid excess system over load, fancy one could give diff relief pressures on both sides of the circuit. all comes down to ya imaginations, and money lol..........although it sounds a little more complicated, it ain't really
12-01-2009, 07:15 AM
See if this reference helps you. It's Army Field Manual (FM 5-499) on Hydraulics. You can download it for free. Here's the link:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4579000/Basics-of-hydraulics - 377k
I bought a CD version of the manual from www.govmedia.com a while back. Good Luck
12-01-2009, 07:51 AM
This is all some good stuff.
Dr Dean-I will have to find out where I had seen it used.
pudding-I am almost pure German, I complicate everything. You can say a lot to a German-but you can't tell him much.;)
PA Weldor-That is really good and easy to read. I was in the Air Force so it would be at least twice as big and you would need a degree to read it.:D
I am in the process of looking for plans a construction equipment mechanic gave me that details how to hook up the hydraulics on a skid loader when attaching a snow plow. I have a 1992 Case 1845C that I am going to attach a 6 1/2' Western blade to. What make, model, and year of skid loader are you working with? I take it that you have the factory installed auxiliary hydraulic connections. When I find the plans I might be able to help with the hydraulics. This mechanic has converted many skid loaders for snow plows. I do remember that it was optional as far as having 2 dual acting cylinders, or just a single one. If I recall correctly he told me that having a cylinder on the right side, and one on the left side for plow angle was better because it created less stress for the side that would not have one in the single cylinder method. I also remember something about having 2 flow control valves because the skid loader hydraulics created way too much force if left without any flow control device. Please let me know what you have, and if the details he gave me were specific for a Case, I can ask him what is needed for your specific machine.
12-01-2009, 08:54 AM
Pat- I have a New Holland LS160, 46hp, about 1800 lift. I have been using this same snow plow and skid steer for at least 5 years with about 600 hrs use. The problem that I have really has been in the pivot and the cylinder (s). These plows were original hung by a chain and could raise up when overloaded. On a skidsteer even in the float mode you have the weight of the boom, mounting bracket all holding the blade down. When you overload or hit a hard bank it can rattle your teeth. The trip is no good as the top of the blade can not move down. So something has to 'give'. With two cylinders and ones with a larger bore you have a sort of shock absorber against the fluid. This works better without the pressure reducers. I use a 3"bore & 8"stroke there is no need to reduce pressure as the rotate speed is manageable, this is of course a operator control issue. I have hand & foot controls so for me to flick my wrist is sort of off. From what I see of the new "dozer/snow plows" they use 2 pivots about a foot apart or more and are quite robust. I am using our unusually good weather to really take the time and make mine over built. I also plan on adding to my toothed bucket a "pusher" box, from 6' to 10' wide, 3.5' high with 2' side curtains. It just amazes me how much these will push without chains-as long as you don't try to cut across banks and high center them. I pile my snow real high and with the plow and boom I can push up to about 14' that I really should be doing with a bucket. I do not abuse my equipment, but I do not baby them either. I am lucky to have the tools and ability to fix what I break and let's face it that is why we are all here. Anyway I can help let me know. Kurt
12-01-2009, 09:06 AM
Sorry Pat I should have reread your post before going off. The actual machine really has little to do with the plow. I have a standard quick plate and aux controls with flat faced couplers. The only problem would be if you had a high flow system which with my limited knowledge of those have a low or regular side. Some guys use chains, I have had no need for them and only can imagine the rough ride. I plow mostly gravel which is really ice with rocks in it. I love to do doughnuts but have learned to check air pressure as that is a good way of popping a tire off the rim.:eek: Kurt
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SnowPlow Lift Cylinder or Angle Cylinders at Angelo's Supplies / SiteOne
On this page you will find all of the Hydraulic Cylinder Replacement parts that we offer here at Angelos. There is also a detailed description below about the proper way to measure the various parts of your cylinder to ensure the right replacement is selected for your plow. As always if you have any questions regarding this important replacement part please do not hesitate to contact us at 1-877-264-3562
How to properly measure your hydraulic cylinder for accurate replacement.
First count the number of ports on your cylinder. If it has one port it is single acting and if it has two ports it is then double acting. The difference here is that single port cylinders only have pressure one way while double port cylinders both extend and retract with hydraulic pressure.
The next step is to measure the port size. Additionally you need to identify the type of ports that your cylinder has. You can either have a pipe thread port or a boss O ring port. While both varieties look similar the Boss O ring port is a little different. This style has both a different pitch of thread and a flat surface on top for the O ring of the hydraulic fitting to seal against. Therefore it is very important that you identify your port type correctly because not all cylinders will work with every snow plow configuration.
Once the port type has been identified you will need to measure the retracted length or closed length of your cylinder. To do this simply fully close or retract your cylinder and measure the length between the center of the pin holes on the opposite ends of the equipment (from the dead end to the active end with he cylinder fully retracted).
Next you need to repeat the same measurement for the cylinder's fully extended length or open. To extend your cylinder you may need to manually insert a metal pipe between both the active and dead ends to allow some leverage for pulling is open to the extended position. Be careful to plan for a bit of a mess because opening and closing your cylinder will likely result in losing some hydraulic fluid in your work shop.
Now the you have the retracted and open length you can calculate the cylinder stroke, or how much the cylinder actually moves. This is a simple calculation, just subtract the retracted length from the extended length and the difference between the two is the length of the cylinder stroke.
Next you need to determine the mount and the mount width. There are several mounting options for a cylinder such as cross tube, drill through, and milled.You will need to take the mount measurement from one side to the other as well to determine the amount of room that is available for mounting purposes.
Finally you will also need to measure the pin hole diameter on both the dead end and the active end as well as the barrel diameter, as well as the rod diameter, or the part of the cylinder that extends in and out.
Once you have all these measurements give us a call at 1-877-264-3562
Offering Snow Dogg, Western, Meyer, Boss, Snow Ex, Fisher, Snoway, Blizzard Plow Cylinders
When Measureing Cylinders:
- "A" pin hole diameter
- "B" port size
- "C" diameter of cylinder body
- "D" stroke length (measure distance between the two weld points)
- "E" diameter of cylinder ram
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